Live Everything
Welcome to the "Live Everything" podcast, where we explore the art of mindful leadership. Join Trivius, an active duty Lieutenant Colonel and Duke PhD student, as he shares his experiences with war, academia, and navigating cultural spaces both physically and mentally.
In each episode, we'll dive deep into topics like leadership, ethics, and cultural competence, and explore how to apply these principles in the real world. Trivius draws on his personal experiences to provide tools for thinking critically about the complicated issues we face today.
As a military leader and scholar, Trivius has interacted with people from diverse backgrounds and has learned how to navigate complex cultural environments. Through his stories and insights, he inspires the next generation of leaders to be more mindful, empathetic, and effective in their leadership roles.
Whether you're a junior leader in the military or a young professional in any field, this podcast is for you. Join Trivius on a journey to become a more thoughtful leader and make a positive impact on the world around us. Let's Live Everything!
Live Everything
9. GEN Z Rising: Train Your Imagination at Waffle House
What if taking a moment to truly appreciate your surroundings could change your perspective on life? Join us as we work through an exercise in observation at our local Waffle House.
We also have an inspiring conversation with Tyler King and Trisha Santanam, Duke students balancing the worlds of Biomechanical Engineering and English. Trisha and Tyler reflect on their experience at Waffle House and explore how this exercise broadened their thinking in unique ways. This episode promises to enlighten and inspire, offering a fresh perspective on the integration of technology, literature, and the beauty found in unexpected places.
Buckle up and get ready for an unforgettable adventure with the "Live Everything" podcast. Join our host, Trivius, as he explores the complexity of a life filled with excitement, adventure, education, and aspects of mortality. In each episode, our intrepid guide delves deeper into the wild ride of life, sharing personal insights and experiences that are sure to inspire and captivate. Don't miss out on this journey of self-discovery and personal growth - tune in and come along for the ride!
One of the things that I got out of this Wampanoag experience is that it really allowed me to slow down and actually kind of take in my surroundings in a way that I just don't do on a day-to-day basis. I think in general, life feels at times very, very hectic and there's not a lot of time to actually appreciate or understand the environment that you're in, and I think for me, this was just a great way to actually take in an environment, like really notice all of the contours of the space and of the experience in a way that I just don't do normally, in a way that I just don't do normally.
Speaker 2:It is indeed marvelous, an irony-free zone where everything is beautiful and nothing hurts, where everybody, regardless of race, creed, color or degree of inebriation, is welcomed. Its warm yellow glow, a beacon of hope and salvation, inviting the hungry, the lost, the seriously hammered all across the South to come inside A place of safety and nourishment. It never closes. It is always, always faithful, always there for you.
Speaker 3:When I was a kid, I was obsessed with this place because I wanted to be a chef, and this is the only place that I've ever been to where I actually watched people cook. This was action to me. I would see these people cooking at a pace and cooking for people who were completely out of control, but still providing hospitality. It was one of the things that really helped me fall in love with cooking Wobblows. Yes, I can't believe I didn't know about this.
Speaker 2:I am unbelievably, in spite of my world travels, new to the wonders of the Waffle House and unfamiliar with its ways. The terminology, for instance, is new to me. Now, look, I'm looking at my hash brown and I am already confused and enticed.
Speaker 3:Here's the thing. You can't go all in if you want everything.
Speaker 2:I need to make a choice.
Speaker 3:So there's a balance, and then, when you find your balance, you memorize it. I go scattered, covered, smothered chunks.
Speaker 2:Which means, I gather, scattered on the griddle, heaped with brown onions cheese and chunks of hickory smoked ham.
Speaker 3:That's my style, like I've been doing that since day one and I don't even know what that means.
Speaker 2:You know what I know? I don't want waffles at the Waffle.
Speaker 3:House Bullshit. Man, you have to have Waffles Okay, you have to have a pecan waffle Now. So what I've devised as a chef is a tasting menu experience where you can sit down and really experience what this place does. And you start out first thing. You have bacon waffle. Really All right, gentlemen. Oh, the bacon waffle. You just crush it, you put every seed, you just slather it. I want it to be swimming in syrup and homogenized vegetable oil.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's good.
Speaker 3:See, you don't come here expecting the French laundry. You come here expecting something amazing. This is better than the French laundry man.
Speaker 5:Hey. So Tyler, welcome to the Live Everything podcast. Tricia has already been on. I think you're season two, episode three, tricia, so for folks out there wanting to listen. But Tyler King, we have joining us remote today. Tyler is a Duke student, double major in biomechanical engineering and English. He hails from Houston, texas, and you are interested in computer programming I think I saw on your LinkedIn you're doing like C++ and Python and other codes that I have no clue about, in addition to a focus area in English literature as well. We met in Professor Jaji's class and Professor Jaffe's class on double consciousness. I did want you to talk a little bit more about what you're doing with biomechanical engineering and English, because I get the English part but I'm not quite sure about the biomechanical engineering.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be on. I think there's a lot of people ask me, like if there's any overlap between, like, engineering and English, and so I'll start there, that I can kind of talk a little bit more about what I do. But I think that, like, as I've taken classes in both degree programs and especially creative writing classes, I think one of the things that I've begun to see is that we can kind of think about both engineering and literature as similar sorts of things.
Speaker 1:In both fields you're trying to kind of understand how something works, and I think in my mind, kind of like there's an engineering. We have this idea of like this prototyping process where you'll go through things in a first pass and then you see what doesn't work, what does work, and you move on from there. And I think for me, writing is really really similar. Like I kind of when I'm writing creatively, I am always working like kind of on the first pass. One of the things I tell myself is I like I'm not going to go back and edit what I'm writing, because I think that kind of interrupts the flow of what I'm doing, and one of my goals is just kind of to get something done, and I think then I take a break and then I go back and I'm looking at like what is working and what isn't working, and then, like you have to ask the question like why is it not working?
Speaker 1:And I think in a lot of ways, like the sort of thinking that we do is not that dissimilar from what engineers do, I think perhaps we get in our heads about like oh, this is language versus like some sort of technical science or whatever you want to call it, and we say like okay, those are very different things, but I think in general, you know things that you're putting together, but things that we're constructing and the source of the inspiration may be a little different, but I think that the processes are in a sense very, very similar to each other, um, and they're both creative endeavors, right, like engineering isn't all just like straight science, we're just kind of going to a lab and doing xyz, but it's a really creative process, kind of trying to discover what these problems are, what are, what are solutions that haven't been tackled before.
Speaker 1:So in a sense they're really similar. Um, and then on like the more critical side, I think it's a similar thing to like my, my interest on the critical side are kind of like really unpacking how do texts work and like what in the language makes them tick, since there is also that process of kind of discovery and going through and saying, like what is going on here, how does this text work? How do I like, how is it doing these things? And you make a like kind of theory and you can test it and sometimes it doesn't work and that's what kind of like leads you through the process of understanding. So I think in my mind that's kind of like how I view the two things together.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that makes sense and it's needed too, just given how, you know, the focus on efficiency and engineering can predominate, can really overshadow the humanistic quality. So they go hand in hand. So thanks for that, tyler. I also want to welcome Tricia back to the podcast Again. Tricia is a Trinity scholar here at Duke, also a current Mellon Mays fellow. That's why you're back here this summer pursuing a degree in English and studying sonic cartography and all the nuance around that with respect to diaspora. So welcome back, tricia. Did you want to elaborate on anything else or just kind of give folks an update on what you're working on now, how that has evolved based on the last podcast?
Speaker 7:Well, I just got here Friday, so I'm in the midst of that, but I'm looking forward to looking through the archives and just like the art museums here, because I think Duke has a plethora of resources that relate to that. But thanks for having me back.
Speaker 5:Yeah, awesome, awesome. So I brought both of you on so we can have, I guess, a continuation of discussion we've already talked about, and that's revolving around Waffle House, right, okay, so for the folks listening, we took a trip to Waffle House and we spent some time listening in that space, and this came off of a workshop I participated in that had everything to do with training your imagination. So this is the idea of being attuned to the different senses that we use on a daily basis, but those of which we're not really conscious of, and so this idea of going to a Waffle House and just listening to the space around you makes you attuned to those senses that you don't otherwise use. Now, tyler and Tricia, you guys remember last year class we set out and we had that great and amazing food and Nathaniel Mackey came to the table and I just want to briefly gloss this before we get into the Waffle House discussion.
Speaker 5:I was explaining to Professor Mackey about my research revolving around Nas and music and lyrics and things, and he asked me if I knew a gentleman by the name of Henry Threadgill, which I did not. I've never heard of Henry Threadgill but he says well, I don't know Nas the rapper. But I do know Henry Threadgill because Nas's father wrote music for Henry Threadgill and Henry Threadgill is one of three, I think, jazz musicians that won. I want to say it's not a Pulitzer Prize, I'll look it up, he won. Say it's not a Pulitzer Prize, I'll look it up, he won. I think it's a Pulitzer Prize In any case.
Speaker 5:Very prolific avant-garde free jazz player. So Henry Threadgill has everything to do with. He just published an autobiography named Slip Into a New World. So this idea that listening to music or engaging in art allows you to slip into a imaginative space, tricia, in a way that you talk about synacritographies as a way to kind of go home, a sense of homeland or belonging. So this took me toward affect theory. Now, tyler, are you familiar with affect theory at all?
Speaker 1:I'm not super familiar.
Speaker 5:Okay, so very, very quick gloss. So around the 17th century this philosopher named Spinoza came up with this philosophy of affect and particularly I'm interested in his connection to a listening experience in nature. So Spinoza kind of provides this unique perspective on emotions or effects that he talks about, which he sees is intertwined with both our physical and mental states. So there's the tension between the mind and the body, right that which is happening to the body, influencing the mind. Now, according to Spinoza, effects can be active or passive. Now, effective, I'm sorry, active effects occur when we have a clear and rational understanding and it empowers us to enhance our ability to act. On the other hand, passive effects arise from, like, a confused or incomplete understanding and it leaves us feeling diminished and less capable. So those feelings that relate to sadness are, conversely, joy. So, in terms of listening when we went to Waffle House, our ability to pick up on certain sounds in the space around us Spinoza would argue that that invokes a certain emotion in us we either become one with the community around us and we see ourselves as cosmopolitan, or there's some discomfort in that space, leading us to make assumptions about what we're doing there. And I remember Tricia you said I feel like I'm stereotyping folks, right. So you know, I think it's a relevant sentiment given Spinoza's philosophy of affect, right, and not that we were doing that, but it makes sense that you would feel that way, because I did when I first did that experience as well. So, anyway.
Speaker 5:So affect in terms of listening, goes back to the question of do we truly understand what's happening to the body as we experience things? And another philosophical question I've been thinking about is, if that is the case, can we deliberately put ourselves in situations to make us feel a certain way? And I think we do that intuitively, right. So that's Spinoza, I mean very macro sense of affect theory. But thinking about if we can reflect briefly on the Waffle House experience and, tyler, I'll start with you, you know it's been a couple weeks since we did that. What are your thoughts on it? Before we get into reflections, I guess this is a reflection what are?
Speaker 1:your thoughts on it before we get into reflections. I guess this is a reflection, yeah, I mean, I think just very, very broadly. I think it was something really different than what I'm normally. One of the things that I got out of this wellness experience is that it really allowed me to like slow down and actually kind of take in my surroundings in a way that I just don't do on a day-to-day basis.
Speaker 1:I think in general, life feels at times very, very hectic and there's not a lot of time to actually appreciate or understand the environment that you're in, and I think for me, this was just a great way to actually take in an environment, like really notice all of the contours of the space and of the experience in a way that I just don't do normally, and so I think that made it quite like a special thing. I think one of one of the things that comes to mind is like the equivalent of being like If you're on like a camping trip and you're just like sitting in nature and you take the time to like, kind of like let all of the sounds around you come into your mind. It's a very similar experience to that, except you're in like a built environment with other people. You're in a place that, like where there's actual activity. So it's a little bit different, but it was just something really striking to me. I think yeah, yeah, trisha, what about you?
Speaker 5:Yeah it was my something really striking to me. I think yeah, yeah, Trisha, what about you?
Speaker 7:Yeah, it was my first time going to Waffle House, my first experience, but I felt really comfortable there, I think in part because I was able to take in my surroundings in a way that I don't do when I'm first going to a new environment. And something that I noticed when I was there is that like right next to our table there was like CCTV footage like where we could see ourselves reflected, so like we could actually I could see myself eating as like we were sitting at that table, and I think that's like representative of our Waffle House experience, because it's sort of like an altered state of consciousness, of being taken out of our normal way of experiencing and trying to inhabit like a different perspective and see what we are like inhabiting a space instead of trying to think of like how other people are thinking of us inhabiting that space.
Speaker 5:Yeah, just quickly reflecting on that of us inhabiting that space. Yeah, just quickly reflecting on that. I didn't even pay attention to that screen because this brings up all kinds of wild thoughts in my head about prior preperception, this idea that you can step outside of yourself and see yourself from a different vantage point, where, in this case, it's the actual screen, where your actual being is being transposed in a different realm. Right this is some heady stuff. Now that I think about it.
Speaker 6:Did you think?
Speaker 5:about that, Tyler. Were you attuned to that screen?
Speaker 1:I remember seeing the screen when we first came in. I feel like I didn't really focus on it while we were in the Waffle House that much. It was more of like a kind of you enter and you exit and you know that you're being perceived through the screen. But once we were inside I don't think I focused a lot of attention on it yeah, there's this theory.
Speaker 5:Um, I think his name is bent bentham um, about the panopticon. Have you ever heard of the panopticon? Tell, are you familiar with the panopticon?
Speaker 1:yeah, I've heard it brought up a lot more recently too.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so this is. Michel Foucault talks about this in the Archaeology of Knowledge, where he talks about a prisoner. It's like a prisoner dilemma. Imagine a jail that is sort of set up in a circle and all of the cells face inward right and in the middle of that prison is one guard. But the guard can't look in all directions at the same time, he can only see one cell. But the prisoners assume that the guard can see them. They're being watched, so it changes their behavior.
Speaker 5:It's like a stoplight or a camera on a stoplight. You don't know if the camera's working, but you see it up there and you're not going to run the light because you'll probably get a ticket, and so this screen functions the same way. If we think about, well, perhaps we're being recorded, right, yeah, we can see ourselves eating, but if we're being recorded, then that's going to influence our behavior in a particular way. Anyways, that's one aspect of the Waffle House. Let's pull back a little bit and talk about Waffle House writ large right as a restaurant, as a place, as a thing. T large right as a restaurant, as a place, as a thing.
Speaker 7:Trisha, what are your impressions of the space, it being your first time? Yeah, the food was really good. I can see why people would go there at like 2, 3 am and I was really surprised by the efficiency of the place compared to the amount of people that were there, and also like the diversity of the place compared to the amount of people that were there, and also like the diversity of the environment, because I know we were just kind of seeing, like what types of people were coming there. But I think that was also really hard for me to judge, just based on like sight, based on what they were wearing. So when you were talking about like what's our strongest sense, I think I began to rely on sound in that instance, because I couldn't simply make judgments based on what I was seeing yeah, yeah, what about you teller?
Speaker 1:I think that, like it was, it was interesting because we're there in the day and I feel like I've always associated wolf of house with like kind of like road trips and it's somewhere where we'd get like a bite to eat towards the end of the night, um, and I think that's like it's a different crowd. But I think again, like as Shisha was saying, like kind of sound was really important because I start I just like started to like hear what was going on, um, and I think, yeah, it's just saying that, like that gives you a clue into, into the people around you, more so than the visual did, um, I think one of the things that I also noticed was, like the number of families that were there. I thought that was pretty striking, um, but definitely it was a different, a different look at waffle house than I, at least, have become familiar with the restaurant, like in the past.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, my experience with Waffle House has always been late night after the club in Atlanta. That's where we used to go. We go to the club, we go to Waffle House and I'm talking 2, 3 in the morning, waffle House, which, to your point, tyler, there's a different crowd after 8 pm at the Waffle House, which, you know, to your point, tyler, there's a different crowd after 8 pm at the Waffle House and it's usually club goers or folks. That's just out and about. But in Atlanta in particular, you know, I remember going to Waffle House and there was a DJ in there and there was also a police officer, right, I mean, it looked like a quasi club. It was like a quasi club, it was weird. And then, conversely, going during the day with my family, a lot more quiet, more family there. But in the diversity of folks Now I do want to point to like there's like a socioeconomic thing happening at the Waffle House too, because, generally speaking, I've not been in a Waffle House and not seen what I would characterize as perhaps low, middle to low income folks.
Speaker 5:That is a bit of a stereotypical statement. I understand that. But there's something about, I guess, the accessibility of Waffle House that makes it feel communal. Did you guys feel that at all? Like going in. Did you guys feel that at?
Speaker 7:all like going in. Yeah, I think one thing I want to say to this point too, is how they notified us of that. They were about to call out or order before they actually said it. And I think that Waffle House was more participatory than a lot of restaurants that I've been to and it felt more welcoming because, like, I think, it prioritized like our individual experience, rather than just thinking of us as us, as like another customer which we, you know we are. But it felt more welcoming than just like a typical, like consumer experience.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, tal. What do you think about that?
Speaker 1:I agree. I think even kind of just like the format of the restaurant itself to kind of lends you to that sort of communal feeling. I think, like it's not super large right there. There were a good number of people there and you have like kind of the more bar-like seating and we were we were in a booth, like kind of in the corner of the restaurant, but it did feel like we, like you, could kind of like participate in and what was going on around you and I think Trisha's hit on a really key point there kind of that the restaurant is like inviting you to participate in this communal experience. It's not just that you're like kind of thinking about it, but it's something about the space is encouraging that sort of feeling.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Yeah, I want us to engage in a bit of exercise. I'm going to put you on the spot here because I didn't tell you about feeling. Yeah, yeah, I want us to engage in a bit of exercise. I'm going to put you on the spot here because I didn't tell you about this, but I did this exercise in a workshop, a writing workshop, and here's the prompt is, you know is, take two minutes and think about your. In this case, we'll do our weakest sense, the sense that we tend not to use, think about what that might be, and then take two minutes to recall your experience in the Waffle House using that sense, and that sense alone, right. So again, think about the sense that you used the least, right of the five senses, the sense that you used the least, and then, using that sense, try to recall what you picked up on in the Woff House. Are you down with that, tyler?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:All right. So we'll take the next two minutes to do that and then we'll come back and we'll explain sort of what that looks like. Deal yeah, all right, two minutes. Deal yeah, all right, two minutes, all right. Tal, are you there? Yes, okay, we're back, all right. So, um, we'll start with you, your weakest sense, and then talk about you know how you engage with, uh, with the restaurant in that way yeah.
Speaker 1:So the sense that he chose this is a I. What I was thinking about like weakest sense is this is the sense that I think when I'm writing, I tend to engage the least. And it's smell, which I think is interesting, because I think, like both smell and taste are sort of like more personal experiences, but smell is kind of like locating, I think. So it's like locating something between yourself and also your environment, in a way that taste isn't um, but I think it's a, it's a sense that we should engage more with as writers. But I think one of the things that that I remember from our experience at the Wolfo House is just kind of it's the smell of like food being prepared, like kind of constantly.
Speaker 1:I think one of the things with the Wolf House is that like the kitchen is there right, like you can see the food being prepared, but you can also smell the food being prepared.
Speaker 1:You can like smell the the potatoes being fried in oil, or like the coffee being made, and I think that's something that you don't normally get in a lot of restaurants. Like you could smell the food when it's placed in front of you, obviously, but I think it's like from the moment that you step in, you kind of get a sense of that food being prepared, and I think it really kind of and obviously there's also like the sound component of it too, and I think for me that's like one of the key things about thrift store and maybe that's also like another gesture towards its. Its communalness is that, like you have the experience of all parts of like your meals journey from like the kitchen at least, to the plate, um accessible, and so I think, like for me, like one of the things that really keys that in is like you get the smell of food being prepared, um, all the time yeah, no, that's, that's's fantastic, it's funny.
Speaker 5:When you said kitchen to plate, I thought about my Waffle House experience the day before. Well, no, it was a week before I invited you guys and I was sitting there and you know to your point about smell, I could smell the bacon and things like that. But then from the kitchen to the plate, the waitress comes over and she asked me you know, what do you want to eat? And I say chicken and eggs. And I told her this is going to sound really weird. I said wait a minute. I said which came first, the chicken or the egg, right? And then I got to thinking, you know, to your point, from the kitchen to the plate, but from the farm to the table, right, I got to thinking about the chicken and the egg. Literally, it was out of control Anyway. So smell. So that's interesting, trisha. What about you?
Speaker 7:Yeah, I was also thinking in terms of writing, would I rely on the least, or even just as I go about my daily life, and I think that's my sense of touch, even just as I go about my daily life, and I think that's my sense of touch, and I think that I use that sense in terms of like touching my food and seeing, like the consistency of things. But also something that interested me was there's like this Tyler, have you heard of this too? Like this idea of like a desire path. I feel like, yeah too, like this idea of like a desire path. So like, if so, there's like a field but there's not like a marked path, like people will just kind of like cut across it and eventually, yes like wear it down yeah, and it
Speaker 7:shows, like people, what people are actually using, and so that's what I was noticing. The waffle house is like the menus and the wrinkles on the menus and which parts had been worn away, um, or like which things on the table had been used, like the syrup and the wrinkles on the menus and which parts had been worn away, um, or like which things on the table had been used, like the syrup and like where it was sticky and like. I think that just told me, maybe like what was most popular at the waffle house, or like where what people were leaning towards. And I think that touches also an interest, interesting sense because it requires you to sometimes go outside of, like your physical space and like take that step, like for smell, sometimes you can't help it, like it it will come to you without you even trying to or like wanting to, but for sometimes, for touch, it's like a conscious effort, like you actually have to think about it and reach out and like touch something, um.
Speaker 5:So yeah, that's I think I thought that was interesting yeah, your point about desire path uh, revel is how I put it is really interesting, because I don't know that folks are attuned to that all the time. You know, I would have never thought about looking at the spot where the syrup is running as a pattern of something that has always existed, because maybe that's how people pour it. That's really, really interesting. It makes me think of this. I'm dropping a lot of phrases here Object-oriented rhetoric. Are you familiar with object-oriented rhetoric? I'm not.
Speaker 5:So it's a theory that suggests that the space that we're in has a lot to do with the inanimate things around us. So, for example, in this podcast studio we're mediated by this table and for Tyler we're mediated by this table, and for Tyler we're mediated through space because we're talking to him over a phone. So that means a couple of things. That means that we can't pick up on Tyler's body language. It means that his cues to come in and talk are not so distinguishable. It also means that the type of conversation we're having between us is mediated by the table, the headphones and this mic. So there's certain things that will never get said because we're being influenced by this stuff. Same is true for these desired paths, and if we deviate from the path and create one ourselves anyway.
Speaker 5:Really interesting, my sense was to touch In that space, my least, I guess, in that space, my least, you know, I guess, conscious sense. And what I wrote here had to do with, you know, the stickiness of the syrup container, the concave table Right, because I remember touching the table. I was sitting facing out, so you know I was. I touched the chair and the window right, so smooth, and then, you know, greasy in terms of the bacon. I also took note of the eggs as I ate them and the touch on my lips, because oftentimes we attribute touch to just our fingers. We don't think about the contact that our body makes with the world around us and how that might be invoking things I thought about when I washed my hands in the cool water on my hands, so that made me think of certain actions that I took as well, when I can think about how not just my hands are touching things but my entire body is engaging with stimuli around it in a particular way. So I don't know, this exercise is a way to sort of train your imagination to think about those senses and I think, because we chose to least use sense, it's probably a little bit more difficult to explain what it is we're perceiving, as opposed to we use our most dominant sense, which is another one.
Speaker 5:You can do A question stemming off. Well, first of all, you guys have any questions, because I don't want to dominate the convo. You got any questions, trish. What about you? Tyler? Any questions upon amplification based on what we just talked about or did?
Speaker 1:I don't think so right now, but I will bring it up if it bubbles up.
Speaker 5:Okay, I got to thinking about the people. We talked a lot about the people in the space and how our I guess our position is mediated by the bar right, and I'm thinking about the cooks with their back turns to us as they're cooking on the skillet and things like that. And so how can sort of this practice I think this is the question I want to ask how can this practice enable a connection with the people in the space? Did you all feel connected with the people in there, or was it just an experience that us three were having in the space?
Speaker 7:I think that the open air kitchen format is something that I haven't really seen a lot. But going back to our previous point about sound and them calling out our order, I was really interested in the lingo of like what I think it was smothered covered pepper. Is that right, um? And I hadn't heard that before I had gone to Waffle House. But now I feel like if I hear that out in the open that isn't in the Waffle House space, I will think of Waffle House again. So I guess I'm interested I don't know if this even answers your question in the fact that Waffle House is sort of making its own language and how, like, when we're all in that space, we're speaking a Waffle House language or understanding a Waffle House language, and so maybe that's one thing that can help us feel more connected to the people who are also eating there. But I think it's also the fact that we all have this aura of like minding our own business when we're at the Waffle House.
Speaker 7:But, I mean, the three of us weren't right, we were noticing everyone else, so I'm sure that the other people at the restaurant were also observant as well, and so I kind of like that idea that everyone is sensing. But maybe it's not always obvious, because I don't think it always has to be. Like we're always sensing, even if we're not aware of it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. The Waffle House language again. Never thought about that, which is why we're here. This is great.
Speaker 5:I tend to think about and I wanted to do this, I just don't have the time. There's a distinct language with the Waffle House smothered, covered, chopped and all of these things, with the hash browns and the waffle or drop bacon and all these things. The other part is when they deliver your food I don't know if you noticed this they deliver it on three different plates. So, like the bacon will get a separate plate, the sausage will get a separate plate. So that's a nuanced thing as well.
Speaker 5:But then, depending on where you go, if you go to a Waffle House in Durham, north Carolina, vice Phoenix, city, alabama you're going to get another language that's probably layered on top of dialect, based on whatever region you're in, and I always thought of Waffle House as a snapshot to the community, the broader community around it, and so sometimes I don't do this all the time, but sometimes I'll listen to the stories that people are talking about, because people tend to share their business in Waffle House in a way that's very public Right are talking about because people tend to share their business in a welfare house in a way that's very public right um, with no consideration of folks around them. But they're very comfortable doing it, especially the workers, especially the workers. You have any experience with that, tyler?
Speaker 1:I feel like I didn't hone in on anyone's conversations per se, but I I think one of the things that I I didn did notice, kind of like what trisha was alluded to, like the idea that, like people are not noticeably paying attention to each other, even though you kind of get the sense that you do I think to me, one of like the things that I tracked the most was the number of families that were there. I think when you're in a family, like obviously, like the idea of attention is perhaps a little bit different, and so I thought it was just interesting Like there were all of the. There were like more kids in the Waffle House than I thought, and so I feel like I would listen to them sometimes and like not even to like notice exactly what they were saying a hundred percent, but I think they just like their exclamations too would be very interesting and kind of also kind of give you some sort of insight into, like what is going on in their minds or in their corner of the Waffle House.
Speaker 5:Let's talk a little bit about sound, because I think that would be the most dominant sense. I don't know what. About you, trisha? I think that would be the most dominant sense, I don't know what about you, tricia?
Speaker 7:yeah, I think that would be my most dominant sense okay, what about you, tyler?
Speaker 1:I know you said you talked about smell as the least I think in general, like sight seems to be the most dominant sense when I write, but I think for the waffle house I would also have to say sound. Yeah, it was pretty dominant.
Speaker 5:What sounds come up for you guys? For me it's bacon straight off the top, like bacon on the grill. What about you guys? Do you guys remember any sounds? Do you think about Waffle House? Do you hear what? Do you hear? Yeah?
Speaker 1:I think one of the one of the sounds that comes up, and I think this is at restaurants in general, but I don't know if I was just more in tune with it at the Waffle House, but the sound of the door opening and closing is something that stuck out to me, and I think maybe it's because we were close and the space is small, but I think, just like kind of being like it's a notification that someone new is entering the space. Um, and so whenever, like whenever I heard the door open, I'd always turn to see who was coming in oh, interesting, because of your positionality.
Speaker 5:I remember you're sitting, uh, with your back against the glass. Um, okay, what about you?
Speaker 7:yeah, I actually came up with sort of a list, um, and because, like you were saying, the position of where we were, I did rely on sound a lot to help orient myself because I couldn't see. So, yeah, I wrote like the snap of the suction as the door was like whisked open, the baby that was wailing like a table away, the sizzle of like the meat and the hash browns on the grill, and then also like the crunch and the scrape of cutlery as, like you and Tyler were eating, was something that I noticed too, and also the stickiness of the floor.
Speaker 7:So, like the sound of my feet is the healing off of that, and just like the accents of the people who were there, like the twang of the person who took our order she was like calling it out to the chefs I think that all like helped signal to me like what was going on, even if I couldn't see it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, those terms you just used made me think of the term that Professor Joshy put on the board called SCAZ, s-k-a-z, which is a Russian formalist device that denotes sound. So when you know, toni Morrison uses this and I think it's the first word of the novel Jazz, and it's spelled S-T-H and it sounds like this, right, and when someone smacks their teeth like that, it evokes gossip. So, like when you just talked about twang, for example, I think is a word of scazz in my mind, because I think about like a southern drawl and what that might do, and I can replicate that in my mind, because I think about like a southern draw, what that might do, and I can replicate that in my head, thinking about Waffle House and this is just an abstract question without being there. You hear that term, you think about it. We've all talked about world building, right?
Speaker 5:What type of Waffle House like? What does Trisha's Waffle House look like in your mind? I'm quite certain it's probably different than mine or from Tyler. Have you thought about that at all in the last couple of weeks?
Speaker 7:Well, I think for me I've only been to one Waffle House, so that's what's most prominent in my mind, but I think that Waffle House is interesting because it seems very nostalgic, like it's like this diner style that I haven't seen before and it like occupies a place that's in like the American past, but it's still very much present in like all of our memories and I think it will continue to be, and so it's longevity is interesting because it occupies a place that's like in the past and also very much in the present and probably will be in the future as well.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah. What about you, tyler?
Speaker 1:I think like for me, my, my thoughts about waffle house will always be kind of like links to oh, we're like I'm with my family on this like two-day road trip and it's 1 am in the morning, we should go get food, um, and like kind of that sort of experience of waffle house. But I think I think this was I really enjoyed this because I think that was like a family experience for sure and so like coming now in the morning, like during breakfast time and seeing other groups of people kind of enjoying Waffle House together, that was really nice and the kind of like it's both a contrast to that late night experience that I used to have. But also there's something that like kind of rings true about both um, and I think that's something like unique about waffle house maybe yeah, I wonder if, going back to that, that affect idea of deliberately putting yourself in a space to invoke memory.
Speaker 5:So for you, tyler, if you think about Waffle House as a family-oriented place and that space sort of is defined by the time of day that you go, you can make some deliberate decisions about how you'll feel in that space when you go Right. Deliberate decisions about how you'll feel in that space when you go Right. And I think about that because I think when I'm traveling I try to find a Waffle House either on the way to the airport, especially early in the morning, because it's so cool and that cup of coffee just hits different in a Waffle House in the morning. But then you know, transparently speaking, if I ever go at night, I'm usually almost inebriated or past that point, so the hash browns taste a little bit different in the evening as well. But you get something different at different times of day. Which has me thinking about memory. How does memory play out in all of this for either of you?
Speaker 1:well, I think like kind of like thinking all about like this nostalgia or this idea of like kind of kind of connecting to past memories. It's like the, the impact of our experience seems to, in general, be all about like making memories or connecting memories, um, and I think like it's really interesting to think about restaurants as a space that does this um, and like we've talked about wealth, housing, a communal space, and I think that's also a really important like aspect of how do we make memories and like what kind of memories are we, are we creating in this space? And I especially thinking about like the contrast. I think for me there's something like uniquely memorable about our experience of the Waffle House, both because we were paying such close attention to what was going on, but I think also because I was able to link it back to these other experiences I had with waffle house and it was it was significantly different but fit sort of some sort of like mold in my memory that I was able to kind of take it down in a more efficient, maybe, manner.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah. What about you, trisha?
Speaker 7:Yeah, I think I'll remember this experience because it was my first Waffle House experience. I'm sure I'm going to go in the future but I'm not a psychologist. But I think there's probably some psychological reason why Waffle House appeals to so many people. I know you have some crazy Waffle House stories. I know your friends have some crazy Waffle House appeals to so many people. I know you have some crazy Waffle House stories. I know your friends have some crazy Waffle.
Speaker 7:House stories and I think that also just adds to the place and helps make it more memorable and I think that's what sticks out to people, the people that they're there with, I think adds to the Waffle House experience. I went with you and Tyler and I had a great time and if I had gone with some other people like who knows right? But I think it really depends on like who you're there with as well.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, you know, when I thought about doing this episode on Waffle House, you know, I think at first glance people were like, oh, waffle House, I mean, what is that about? But it's not really about Waffle House. It's about the texture of the space around you and noticing that and being attuned to that, because my presumption would be that this type of texture that we're talking about exists probably in multiple spaces that we inhabit. We just we're not attuned to it, we're just not conscious of it in the way that we were, because we went there deliberately to listen and to look and smell and see.
Speaker 5:And I don't think I've ever gone out with the intent of doing that. It kind of just happened in Waffle House, that way of being aware of perception from a multi-sensorial perspective and not just relying on my dominant sense, which is probably sight, because that's how I interpret things, but really thinking about smell, touch, hearing. And then here's a jump that I never thought about. We think about the five senses and I talked about prior preperception as sort of a sixth sense, but there are other senses that I forget the author's name, you said it earlier who led the workshop?
Speaker 7:Camille Dundee.
Speaker 5:Yes, she mentioned the various senses associated with time and space. So your sense of memory and the things that evokes that, or your sense of yourself in a different time or a future self, and these are other possibilities that we can think about. How this is going back to affect theory, our body engages with the world and then, you know, is interrelated with how our mind thinks about the space around us. Does that make sense? I don't know if anyone wants to be turned on to that level of perception all the time. I don't know if that's possible, but for me this helps me be a little bit more intuitive about the spaces. I'm in right, so I hope you guys got something out of that. So, all right, what did we miss out on? I've exhausted my little roadmap script here. I think we covered a lot actually. What do you think, tyler?
Speaker 1:I think, like what you just said, I think there's something that just to me, one of the things that like reflecting on this experience as a whole, is that it feels like almost like something that you it's like.
Speaker 1:It does feel almost, in a sense, like some sort of writing exercise, in the sense that in fiction, poetry, whatever medium we're writing in, like we want to capture as much of the world as we need to in order to like communicate it to someone, and part of that involves like being very, very attentive to not just one dominant sense, which I think in general tends to be sight, but also making sure that, like we attend to all of the other senses.
Speaker 1:I think like that's really important in establishing a world in a story, for example. But also this idea of memory also is quite key, because I think stories don't happen in isolation, right, they're always in constant communication with things that are going to either come before or after them, and so I think the experience that we had in this novel house is just like such a great kind of way of thinking as writers, because it's what we want to do in our texts, and it's hard to do that when it's like you have no external reference. And so I think for me this exercise is like great and kind of recalibrating and orienting my mind toward that sort of thinking yeah, um, just to amplify your point, I didn't think about writing as thinking until a year ago.
Speaker 5:Right, I've been doing this for a long time, but I got to thinking why can't I just sit down and pump out five pages? I can, if I spend about five days thinking about those five pages, and Toro Moy was my writing instructor for one of the classes I took called Writing is Thinking, and that's the point she was making was that before your fingers hit the keypad or your pen hits the page, there's a deliberate process of thought that has to play out, because time is the only thing that's standing between you and a good thought, and you have to allow for time to let these ideas maturate, which is why I'm glad that we waited maybe a couple of weeks before doing this, because we can return back to those scenes that are more relevant that just pop up. I'm going to give you the last word, tricia, putting you on the spot.
Speaker 7:Well, I mean something that you just said about the amount of time that we had between recording this and when we were going. I was worried that I would forget a lot of the elements of what I had sensed, but I think that this just goes to show that like it was a really memorable experience and like what we talked about today is like what stuck with me most, and so I think, like consciously sensing things we remember more than we think we might, and I think that's good, that we should just like trust ourselves about that and trust our perception and like what we're sensing, because I know sometimes I doubt my what I'm sensing, but I think that we should just give ourselves a little bit of grace yeah, all right, awesome.
Speaker 5:Well, with that we're gonna, we're gonna close. Um, you know I'll, I'll put in here some, some waffa house stories that I have that feel, because, tyler buddy, I'm gonna send you some and I you some, and I'll send you a recording of some of these stories, and some of which are not appropriate to put in here. But now the listeners are going to be like I got to hear it.
Speaker 5:So maybe we'll do a coda of the podcast with stories. Hey folks, thanks for tuning in. I appreciate you listening and sharing like this, if you can, and thanks to you, tricia. Thank you, tyler, for piping in. I appreciate you listening and sharing like this, if you can, and thanks to you, tricia. Thank you, tyler for piping in. This is really great, so I appreciate it. We'll talk to you guys soon.
Speaker 4:Around 2008,. It was right after Airborne School, so military training. We had some international students that was with us. So we had one guy from Rwanda, a white gentleman from Michigan, myself and another buddy from high school, so a very diverse group going into a lava house around 2, maybe 2.30 in the morning, which is funny because every Waffle House in Columbus, georgia, was within walking distance to a strip club and the amount, the diversity of people that you saw in this Waffle House was amazing. So you walk in. The international guy was just amazed because on the left hand side you have a group of exotic dancers. So on the right hand side you had a group of crossdressers.
Speaker 4:On another side it was like a family that was ready to go to church and this older lady, black lady, was running this waffle house like it was a clock factory. She came in, we all came in like hey, where do we get to sit? And she was very nice, gold tooth in her mouth, and she was like hey, baby, y'all can go ahead and find somewhere else. A homeless guy came in and mid-sentence, while she was welcoming us in, she cussed out Paul. The homeless guy Was like don't you bring anything in here, you got to stay outside and whatnot. Then Paul goes outside, mad, started peeing on the window outside. We sit down and you smell the cigarette, smoke some of the best food ever.
Speaker 4:But the guy from Rwanda was just so amazed that we had this much diversity in a very segregated city and I remember he asked hey, are we going to get shot here? And the moment I said no, you hear gunshots in the parking lot. It's pop, pop, pop. And I changed it and say maybe. And I hear this old lady say put the eggs on to her other co-worker, and didn't know what that meant. We finally get our food Within eight minutes.
Speaker 4:The police came in and it was almost like it was routine that they just picked up this egg and bacon sandwich from the Waffle House. Almost like it was routine. And I thought for myself in that moment hey, this is home, this is home. You just had a diverse group of people. Nobody was panicking, you had gunshots. And I love that story because I think his name is Regis, from Rwanda. He was taking pictures and I was like, hey, don't do that. But the moment that he said or at least I said, no, you're not going to get shot, the gunshots went off. I look over him, just start laughing, and that was my profile picture on Facebook for some time. Maybe, maybe, you will get shot at.
Speaker 6:White dude going with going Boosie concert. I don't even remember exactly what happened, but it was a white dude going with going Boosie concert. I don't even remember exactly what happened, but it was a white dude going to a Boosie concert post shenanigans. After the concert, going to Waffle House, I'm pretty sure, with two black chicks I think, and then somehow ending up in a dude's apartment that had crack and a handgun. That's the craziest Waffle House story I had and then somehow linking up with you. I don't know what the order of events was, but that is all the things that I remember.
Speaker 7:None of the waitresses had all their teeth is what I remember.
Speaker 1:Like just being like what is going on. I was like where am I, you know, because I'm not. We don't do that where I'm from.